Mapping value Splunk AppDynamics business transactions and service endpoints

Oh, everyone, once again and a warm welcome today to our expert insight session. So whether you're joining us from Singapore ch I see somebody from.00:00Jakarta.00:20Tokyo right here in Australia. It's great to see you today. I'm a host for the session as a CSM here at AppDynamics. My daily conversation is usually around one thing, which is value. We all know monitoring is essential, but.00:21Mapping that monitoring to an actual business outcome is where the magic really happens. Today, in our special expert inside series, we will be focusing on mapping value through business transactions and service endpoints.00:41The goal is to move past beyond just the red and light green light so you may see the bars and talk about how these metrics actually tell us the story of your business performance. To help us navigate this, I am happy or excited to have the true expert in the field with us to.01:00Joining from Australia, Sydney is Kevin, our CSE. Kevin has been in the trenches for some of our largest customers in the region, and he helps them bridge the gap between the technical metrics as well as the business logics which we designed with our customers.01:20Kevin, we are lucky to have your brain here on the call today and it's a pleasure to see you again on 2nd one, if I'm not mistaken. Ok, some housekeeping rules, just a quick shout out. Before I hand it over to Kevin, here are some things that we can.01:40Keep in mind, 1st off, just a heads up that we are recording this session, so if you miss on a detail or would like to pass the session to a colleague, please reach out to me or Kevin and request it. We are happy to get that link for you. If you have any questions, as Kevin goes through the slides, please feel free to type them in the chat option.02:00It's right at the bottom right of your screen. I will be monitoring that throughout.02:20Also, if you feel that question is a bit more complex and you would last, you would want to ask it live, you would love to hear that as well from you. Just use the raise hand option in the menu at the bottom or let me know in the chat I would let I would unmute you for asking it out live on screen.02:24Please don't be shy about the reactions. I personally love it, and I'm sure Kevin would not mind some hearts and thumbs up popping on the screen. Also, if you are comfortable, please drop a line of feedback in the chat before we wrap up. We would want to know how the sessions work for you as well as what we would want to hear in the next.02:43So one last thing, Kevin, I'm sorry taking a bit longer. Our conversations do not have to end here after this webinar. Both Kevin and I are completely open to follow up questions after this session.03:02So whether it's a technical hurdle you're facing or some strategy question you would want some help with, we would love to hear from you. And that's enough for me. Kevin over to you and Welcome everyone.03:15Today we are running the what we call the essential series in the expert inside series. It's funny to have the same name, but what we want to do is every month we run to expert inside series where one of them is more like the niche case, what.03:33New what's the feature, and this one is running in parallel on the.03:52Onboarding side or most of the case, how do you use FD on a day to day basis? So last time we did the introduction, how to share the light in the dark and today we'll be talking about how.03:58Business transaction link the APM to your day to day business, which is the core of appdynamics, I would say, how would you differentiate us from other APM or observability products?04:13So, let's just quickly get started. Now, today we will spend a few, like a few slides, but most of the time I want to spend some time in our demo environment to show you.04:30Where is the buttons and also what's something I would recommend for my customers? I hope that could help you on a day to day basis pick up a few nuggets here and there. And in general, how do you navigate in the business transaction side of things?04:47What we will include is tips, definition, things that's say e.g. limitations of the transaction and the workflow. What we will not include is instrumentation.05:06Edge cases, say e.g., how do you instrument something that's not as common like not not a very common languages or something beyond what we can do? Do you have an extension for that? These are not covered.05:22However, for general business transaction usage, day to day scaling or how do you make your life better quality of life or quality of work I should say, things like that that we will be covering.05:39So let's kick off with what exactly is this transaction? Why do we use this transaction as the core of the product? It's very simple because two things, that's before when we have melts or before we have.05:56When we look at the, how a application perform in the modern age or even before that, it's clearly defined that we have end user monitoring, infrastructure monitoring, data, and just the general APM itself.06:17Where on the business side, how they see it is, say this customers in an e commerce platform they want to check out that's is one unit. But in a SRE point of view, it could be any part of things I mentioned just now. So.06:35How do we combine that together before the trace is a thing we have business transaction where we clearly define it is as a workflow or.06:55A clearly defined function for a batch or a custom process, which is also on the business point of view is important for them. It's clearly defined in business metrics. Then with that you start to build the relationship between DevOps and the business unit.07:05That's where business transaction comes from. There's also the element of tagging as well, but we won't go too deep into that.07:25So, beside our business transaction, which is the core of the transaction type, we also have service endpoint back end calls. In terms of the transaction type hierarchy, we put them together.07:35Mainly we will be talking about the transaction, but service endpoint you can see it as a business transaction light where a lot of times you use that for a specific use case or if you have scaled your business your application or your environment so much.07:51That you have hit the limit of absolutely everything that we can. The service endpoint is somewhere that you can get a middle ground off like look at things that's less important, but you still want to monitor it. That's where the service endpoint is at. Back end core is very simple. It's where we capture.08:10Anything that we ping that we get instead of we are getting the whole business transaction usually it's something outgoing or say e.g. if you have a database call and you don't have a database monitoring license in appdynamics or anything to do that.08:30Then our agent will try our best to get the best the best information that we have. That's where the backend calls happens, trying to stitch everything together from front end to back end. This is just the definition of the.08:50This transaction.09:10So, as I said, it's, it's not exactly something you can see, ok, this is a phone, this is a transaction. It's something we define that's to help you to put it as a unit, to connect both the business and the development side of the team together.09:11And it also gives you something to start monitoring and also give you guys a common language to talk about. Here you can see like example is lock in search, when say the business manager comes in, oh I want to look at the lock in, then you can put that business transaction in front of him.09:31Where it includes all this possibly a micro service every year and there or a database call altogether, you can use that as a whole unit. But obviously when you go troubleshooting, the business transaction can be drilled down into smaller unit all the way down.09:51To a database, a query.10:11Or a, a line of the line of code that is traveling you. So just two things, people always think there's a transaction because of the term business it's only user in user initiated or it's an interaction between the user, it doesn't have.10:13Could be, it could be a batch process, obviously in terms of batch process, there will be caveat into like ok how fast is the batch process? How many process in 1 s is happening? Things like that, but it doesn't stop the definition to cover that, if that makes sense.10:33I wouldn't put too much effort into this because I'm sure you're quite familiar with how, how does a transaction include if you're a day to day user, but basically the analogy is that, you know logistics side of, you know, logistic company that you have a tracking number.10:51About any tracks every single.11:11Every single pit stop and destination of the package delivery, that is what business transaction about in some extent, that's something easier for someone who 1st approach AppDynamics to understand.11:15But if you are already using it, that, that analogy would be, there will be some out, there will be some sort of fallout where some meaning doesn't get there. E.g. batch process, e.g., if it deviate into remote call things like that. But generally that works.11:33Oh, I've said we don't touch the instrumentation, but when you 1st onboard AppDynamics and you deploy agent, agent is able to understand.11:52As much as they can in terms of how your information flow, how your application interact with each other and try to build a business transaction by its own term.12:09So, because it doesn't understand the context of it, it will follow a URL segment and its default into two. That is just the default setting trying to cover as much ground as possible in a business transact in a.12:25Application point of view, obviously you can already see many many potential caveat or variant will be there, but this is what we see and we are trying to cover as much as possible to minimize your work at the very beginning.12:42I've talked about business transaction and service endpoint, business transaction is obviously the the full spectrum of how we can understand the environment, but it's stacking up transit transaction, it becomes your whole environment. Service endpoint is.13:02Something we focus on a set of service within a tier and we only.13:22Pick up specific metrics instead of, ok, we have upstream, downstream. It doesn't connect to a downstream metrics. You can include data from more than one bit of transaction as well.13:28This is mainly for you to pick up say error per minute load, and this that there's not much of a context in between. Say e.g. if you're testing something that is non prod, that is.13:44That is like a stress test environment, service endpoint is perfect. Especially you don't want to have like even tiny bit of overhead when it comes to the edge cases. Service endpoint does a really good job because it's really minimized the overhead.14:01But at the same time, you don't get the full flow, you don't understand the downstream if there is one, things like that.14:20Now, you have appdynamics, you get business transaction and ok it it pops up with hundreds of business transactions straight away because of auto discovery. If you don't configure them and you just.14:35Trying to look for problem, trying to look for improvement, it's it's very hard. It takes you a lot of times e.g. it could be a 3 s URL which will discuss later, then you really couldn't find a problem.14:51Just by that. So we have an approach to that as using auto discovery and which all we're trying to do is to help you focus on what matters to you. And then we'll go forward on, ok, let's do more. That's always the onboarding case.15:09Before going into recommendation, how to tune the BT, I will jump into the environment so that you guys can have a look. And, what I'll do is give you an introduction on how it looks like, how to get there.15:28And in between, if there's any tips that I can give you, I will and how my customer interact, then I will.15:48So this is not the 1st page, right? I hope the screen's shared now. So once you log in you will see this. From the last session I have told you guys these is these are all based on.15:58Your behavior, like what have you recently visited, like cookies and the kind of thing. And if you want to jump into application that's 90 % of you guys choose an application in here and.16:14Once you're in there, there are two ways to go into business or three ways actually going to business transaction. Number one is obviously the left hand side panel. If you can see the health on the right, you can also click that, which bump you into there.16:31Or if you don't have time, talk business transaction here will really help you to really sort out what is important. This is a dashboard we'll build basically for people who wants to focus on business transaction.16:47But yet they don't have time. So you can sort this into, say, by load, by response time, by error, and if you go into that, then you can start work. That's how, that's how we built this dashboard.17:03But obviously, if we're not in that situation and we want to really learn and trying to understand the environment, you'll click into business transaction and you will see your transaction listed here. You can use filter to help you to understand like what do I want to.17:24See.17:43There's one very interesting checkbox here called transaction with permit performance data. The reason why I say it's important and interesting is because when you 1st onboard your application, sometimes you don't have load or not enough load in a business transaction.17:44And you couldn't see on the list. That is simply because this is checked. If you uncheck that, you will be able to see some of these business transactions that have NO call, NO response time.18:03So that's one of them. The other reason is obviously on the right top right corner, you want to capture, the, the, the time that's closer when the instrumentation is early, otherwise you won't see the.18:19Load the load is too small.18:39So that's that. Now, if you click on action, you can, you don't see much because you haven't selected a business transaction. If you select one, you can choose troubleshooting. It brings you to what helpful you have set up. There's another section basically trying to capture.18:41As many program or a snapshot which help you to.19:01When you find a problem, this really helps you to pin it down, take more snapshot, you can really see what's happening. Export to reports, don't need to talk too much about this. Configure service basically is to.19:07To toggle your baseline to make specific changes on, ok, this business transaction has to be more strict, then you can do that. Renaming, very straightforward, but very important. That is, these transaction used to be called just URL. Renaming that really help you to put contacts into it.19:23Delete transaction, simple. Expert transaction, we'll talk about it later. Ideally, you want to use that a lot more than everyone's supposed to do. Set background tasks, that's not something we'll be talking about. Grouping is.19:44A new thing, it's a new feature where for bigger customers, if they have too manipular transactions they need an additional hierarchy to manage them. This is where you do it. Now you also have view option to see to configure what you want to see in these different columns.20:01Straightforward enough. Oh, I want to also mention we have a new feature which is tag. If you tag your business transaction, then you can just use tag to split them in this particular field.20:21And my apologies, click on something I shouldn't. And if you click on configure, it brings you to instrumentation. That's what I did just now. That's where you get to the specific rules that instrumented your application. One quick tip, which is also a feature is that if you write.20:36Click on the visit transaction, you can find the, I can see if it's here real detection rule. This only works when this is a specific rule that you have built. If the default rule, you won't be able to click on it.20:56Say e.g. you have a poll your rule that's specifically for an app for a business transaction that we couldn't detect, you can use that to go back to that. If you do that too many times, this is extremely helpful. Lock is where you, where we used to call this.21:16Business transaction locked down if I'm not wrong. This will stop new business transaction to be created in this monitor tab, you can look at here and it will go to oh, I don't have unfortunately I don't have.21:36I don't have the privilege to do that, but you will have something called outflow. Overflow. Overflow means that the business transaction is what it's found, but you don't want to monitor.21:55We'll talk about that later as well. So that's this transaction in a nutshell. If you have questions, feel free to leave it in the chat, otherwise, I will continue. Hey Kevin.22:11I feel I would like to get a question from the CSM perspective, am I? Go ahead. Okay, so there are potentially lots of business transactions around a customer's portfolio, the applications that they monitor. So how do you suggest, is there any kind of a thumb rule for picking like the.22:29Top five or ten which actually gives the business value to the leaders who kind of look for an ROI. So from your experience, could you share us some insights about that?22:49Yeah, that's that falls into the planning or the people management side of using appdynamics. We have, I'm sure you know anchor we have a topic around that. In general terms, you should be planning on how to use AppDynamics at the begin.22:59Beginning where you're, you want to ask.23:19The other like the more important management about what's important to them and then you go filter down to the actual context of the application. Usually generally speaking in e commerce, you'll be looking at checkout at.23:24Sometimes with abandoned card, sometimes it will be catalog or a finance, say an insurance company that I managed claim will be one of the most important part application loan application.23:46Or when some of the government authorities comes in and do batch process, these are something that will be really important to them. As you said, top five. Yes. Top five or top three are the most important thing to start with.24:02Which I also want to discuss later where you start small and you really take into that business transaction, understand that build helpful around it, have the proactive monitoring in that piece, then you see value out of it right away. That's how we should be doing things.24:18But back to your questions, it really depends on the vertical, the business, what's important to them, and on the horizontal side, what is happening in their business? Say e.g., if they have a new product launching, that might be a focal point.24:37Got you. I think that's where our value mapping workshop or might come handy. Thanks for that given though. No worries. Okay, now let's get back to the slide. Promise it won't be too long.24:55So, we, when we 1st deploy agent, it discover everything, as I said, it's you can see the power of it. You can see, ok, I can see everything, the visibility is great. Very quickly it fills up your noisy meter and then you're like, ok, I don't know.25:09What to do I don't know what to find, what is important to me when a problem comes in, I go back to the mode where, is it the database? Is it this, is it that you go back to that stage where you don't have appdynamics. So you have to take control. The whole idea is to.25:29Put that old school way of lesses more. So, if this, 1st of all, you want to toggle the problem.25:48In every single bit of transaction, which is the 1st of all, say e.g. you want to define what is slow, what is critical, and then make everything that way. Just make it that way on a standard and then you can customize it.26:03That will take away most of the noise in the middle and you get the outliner. And then 2nd part is Oh, I didn't know even the slide has that term less it's more. But yeah, so it recommends 30 to 40 optimally configured business transaction.26:20I'll be honest with you most of the time you should start with five because this transaction can be very long. It can include a lot of things. You might want to optimize, say, database, optimize the health rule. So vertically horizontally there are many things to do.26:41Then you should After that you should expand upon, obviously one application five in the transaction and then build things around it and then expand. That's what basically this slide is about.26:57Okay, now we talked about BT overload, business transaction overload. This occurs when you hit the limit of what we have.27:17Per node or per application. This also means that you have too many in 99 % of the case. I've seen customers that will need them anyway, then we'll talk about it. It's an edge case.27:31But 90 % of the case will be, ok, this is just a problem that you need to fix within the tuning. You would really see it when you you will you find some of the metric doesn't appear, some of the.27:46If the transaction is not there, then you are losing visibility and the visibility you lost is something you don't know if you need them. That's the bigger problem. So, with that.28:03You will, the cause is obviously what we mentioned. The effect is you don't know what's hidden and all that I want to also show you that this is the heart limit.28:18Say my heart man. 200 is a transaction per application 50 per node. Obviously, if you are a customer that's big enough and they are a critical need of 201.28:33Business transaction, things like that, you would need to talk to colleagues like Anchor or my other colleagues like Simon. They will sort you out, they will try to discuss on what's next for you. But most of the time, this is a hard limit.28:50And obviously it would disturb how you use app dynamics. I don't want to do that cause it's a bit silly. Now, before we talk about, ok, what is the overflow and how do we use it to our advantage?29:06When tuning a business transaction, the 1st thing to do is to identify what is not a BT. Something like these one that's displayed, like e.g., you're going to aesthetic page and you rarely change. This shouldn't be a BT, you can just ping it and see if it works by synthetic monitoring or things like that.29:26There's NO underlying needs of doing that unless you have edge cases but I have never seen that before. Another one is what I was talking about. Default you get your business transaction in two segments but then sometimes it's.29:46Sometimes in one segment that you can have different, different view or sometimes you get three segments, but actually you only need one BT or the previous one you need to have a split.30:06That can help you. These are the things you have tuned, not just for the sake of not hitting the overflow, but also to be more tidy to help you to understand the actual flow, the actual load, the actual error per minute, things like that.30:24I have a lot of experience on the UI segment. This happens a lot of times because we default onto your I and nowadays it's very rare, you will need to really look into that like, ok, how is constructed, what should we do, things like that.30:44Again, you clear up your UI segment, you ensure your performance data is aggregated and meaningful. You have why isn't that that? Okay.31:07You have, actionable BTs meaningful, then you will want to use BT lockdown. That's how we use it to our advantage instead of waiting for it to get full.31:22So what you do is you made five or ten or even 20 business transaction ready, you click the lock button, it gets locked down, anything beyond that, that also auto instrumentation has found, it goes to the overflow tab.31:37From there, when you are very familiar with those five to ten business transaction, you go to the overflow tab and look for a thing that matters to you and delete the one that doesn't. From there you can unlock it.31:55Move these media transaction into your monitor tab and then repeat that exercise. The last bit will be you can also change the auto detection rule to make sure that even the default auto detection rule works with.32:10Is how you deal with your business transaction. E.g., the segment placement, e.g., there are things you do not want to detect, the priority of the business transaction you want to detect, things like that. Custom match rule is.32:30The other way around is when you don't, you want the transaction that you want to have, then you use that to try to look for it in different ways. E.g., through a header, through keywords, things like that.32:48So this one is basically, as we said, you have to make sure that the BT you're looking are what they call the 1st class business transaction in my term is what matters to you the most. Okay, and that's pretty much it.33:09Okay, I think I have, we don't need that. I can show you that. Ok, let me show you instead of looking at the screenshot. When we lock it down.33:27Unfortunately now I cannot, but you will have this locked and you will have a overflow. What you want to do is keep these as important as possible, rename them and.33:42When it comes to the detection rule, that's a bit of an implementation. You will want to alter them by say e.g. what rules you want to follow.33:58These will really help you to understand, say e.g. what you really want, what we really don't want out of the gate instead of just doing it for the sake of.34:15Coming in and then you look at it and then you change it. What I want to do is I want to add a rule with you, then you can see clearly what you can filter down. So here.34:30You can have, default include exclude that will really help you to exclude unnecessary most of the time. Priority is what, which one trumped the other one. It can be this very similar because you're trying to look for let me just.34:46Transaction in different ways. Some of them it overlaps.35:06So your priority to trump each other. Scope is to look at what tiers that you want to look at. Rule config configuration is where you can play around, where what is the URI trying to look trying to look for that particular.35:08String and you can also split transaction. This is where we talked about like how many you are a segment you wanted to have or how little you want to have and you can even use request method.35:29If that helps you play around with that. I wouldn't put too much time into that, but the whole idea is if you're thinking of from the spectrum of reducing or to.35:46Make the transaction make the transaction to come in in a cleaner way. This is where you do it. And you can sometimes say e.g., I don't want any more you can just, you can just put in put a.36:02What was it? You can put a, sorry, exclude rule and put a high priority and then trumpt it. Then you can stop it happening. So these are small little tricks you can do.36:18Another one will be if you right click into that, obviously renaming, excluding when you exclude it, it moved from monitored to locked. This is useful when you are already in the month and you want to move it away.36:33You forget what that means, click on that, it shows you a quick explanation, but basically you put it in a group that is not actively monitored, but you know it's there. So that's that.36:52Okay. Any questions so far? Kevin, we have one question here. It says for a new customer, how long should they typically let.37:16Auto discovery run before they start taking control of those transactions. Ideally you, if you know what you're looking for, cause that has there's a lot of factors. Number one, there is that factor of.37:31Okay, how fast is the auto detection, right? It can be slow and you might not get anything and then you, you don't want to put a strict time into it. But at the same time you also don't want it to be.37:51Too much. So there is obviously a lot of trial and error, but at the same time you want to understand what you're looking for. Say e.g., you work with a developer, developer given your eye, and you know.38:07What it is, then once they show up, you rename them. Even if you have 50 that you want to monitor choose 20 and remove and move them to overflow 1st. Make sure you get that done properly rename it, group it.38:23And then from there, you can, you can keep the auto discovery open, auto discovery on and lock down your business transaction in a monitor side. Then when you're ready, just add it back. To be honest, sometimes in a middle size environment.38:41This auto discovery will stop in, not a lot of time, you will, it will start to understand that's pretty much how it flows and your environment wouldn't be varying too much when it comes to the behavior, say e.g. in e commerce.38:58If they buy things, they buy things, right? If they go through this, they go through this. It's, it's somehow control environment and it would eventually understand unless you bring in a new application. So I'll say back to your question, it will be depends.39:15But don't be afraid to open everything, let them come in, choose the right business transaction, lock it down and start doing your work. Lovely, that makes sense. Kevin, we have another question here which talks, which something I believe even I.39:34I kind of sometimes reflect back on, it says about application and SRE teams related to the auto discovery feature. So in your experience.39:54Who usually knows which transactions are critical? Do you think it's the developers or should we be talking to the, let's say the business analysts or business owners to define these? That's a very good question. Now, if we talk about in general, you can link all the way back to the purchase process when you purchase appdynam.40:05That makes what you want to do, but we are not talking about that. That's way too behind, right? We are here, we want to know what's important to us and what can we do right now. So in general, what I would recommend is.40:25Number one, if you have a new project that's essential that you want to look at that, that's your primary target. Simply because there's the, they have the higher chance to have problem. So monitor that part, like get all the business transaction from there.40:43That will be number one priority. Number two, I'll be thinking of if it's a customer focused business, anything that's profit generating is what's important to them regardless. So that will also be a priority that will probably a second priority.41:00Or with a project too small, then your profit making business transaction will be number one priority. And so when will be compliance. If you are complied by any government rules, anything that's very essential, say e.g., I used to deal with a hospi a hospital organization.41:18In Asia, obviously there are some complaints that something cannot fail. This is where you put a stam on it as urgent. So it really depends on the vertical but at the same time, you will want to think of what's happening in the organization.41:36Usually the head of the department will have that in their hand, but obviously sometime it doesn't, then that's where the internal discussion has to happen. And what a SRE can do or a observability expert can do is.41:56Okay, we trying to understand the business concept, trying to understand what the business people say and you can translate into the services that you have. That's the particular skills that you guys have. So that's where you translate.42:14That language, put it into, ok, business transaction, it has to be these three things, then you build that business transaction logic. In here you can see like, ok, the URL is that or it's about this keyword, then you can kind of build them together. I hope that makes sense Ankar.42:29Yep, absolutely it does. Just a quick heads up Kevin, we are almost at the edge of our meeting window, so, you know, like, we might want to kind of give it a closure yeah all good so I think most of these things I have already talked about, I don't.42:49Want to look into two specific like the slides are like really look into what button to click on, but in general like these are the.43:09Places that you want to go. I want to quickly jump in here. Your best practice for business transaction, again, when you're ready, lock it down, focus on the right business transaction, put a good naming standard, not just to name it with the context but also have an.43:18Naming that makes sense in general, say if you want to have a team function naming, you can do that with prefix or suffix or things like that or put a number in front of it to help you to identify.43:37Chronological order or if it's a functional order, and then you could put it in a group as well remember. So if you have a team that focused on a specific business transaction, just get them into that group, then they can look into that if there's that segregation of team. Custom rule is for me.43:55This is something more like it's more like an art to me on trying to understand how to connect when you need it, it's obvious.44:15Always leave notes basically means that, ok, when you build that transaction, what was your logic? Or what time did you make it? What was the rationale or who wants to see it? Then when someone looked at it without your presence, that would be very useful.44:25The next one is very simple. Everyone does that, do it in non prod 1st. And then the last part will be monitoring it, right? So there's a live preview that you can use when you are capturing the transaction.44:43But in general, what you want to do is on the 1st few weeks or few months when you 1st built the business transaction, always monitor that, see how it interacts, see how it collects the business transaction, if it's gonna split too many of them or is it not including the ones that you want to split, is that.44:59That the the the area that you want to capture or this just NO matter where you go, it's the same.45:19Exception which is something you already noted, you already know that you don't want to you don't want to see anymore, like monitor it, then make sure this VT is perfect, like these five BT is now very useful anyone can use it. Then you can use that as a use as an example, then you just copy and paste.45:26Same question.45:45That's pretty much everything. I'm not going to do that. Question we've answered now these are standard stuff. You always have some level of Cisco used subscription when you're a AppDynamics customer, feel free to go.45:48Trying to learn something there is certification, there's instructor lead courses or virtual classes, go there, actually learn.46:08Is this is a good information gathering places, but Cisco U is where you can learn specific things. We post video live session on YouTube, feel free to go there and interact with our expert as well.46:17The last bit I'm not putting, I haven't put in is remember, we are still running other EIS sessions, which one of them will be something like that, which is the foundational series, the other one will be edge cases. The next one will be done by with my lovely colleague Sujith. He will be delivering.46:33Is AI used in app dynamics.46:52That's an amazing topic to go with. I encourage you to go and have a look, and that's everything I have. Kevin, thank you so much for that. I love how you took those technical service endpoints thing and you know tied them back directly to user experience.46:56Also about the business impact that it may have. That's exactly the kind of insights we would have wanted our users and participants to know today. So just as a reminder for participants, if you would like a copy of the recording or the slide deck, please just drop a quick yes.47:16Or recording in the chat right now or shoot me an email afterwards. I don't want to hold you back for now. Please, if you also feel there is any comment or feedback, love to see that as well, but most importantly, thank you for your time today. It has been a pleasure hosting this session for you along with our Kevin.47:33And Kevin, thanks again, most importantly, with that we may call it a wrap, see you all for the next expert insight session. See you.47:52